realistic power

[turbochris]

i have started to collect the parts for my project, i have a wide arch 5 turbo and a 21 turbo motor. i am going to mid engine the 5 and install the 21 engine,my question is how much power can i get from the 21 engine without causing reliability issues. regards chris :D

[turbochris]

well am i on the wrong forum? thought i could find a 21 expert :lol:

[OlliePh3]

I am by no means an expert! but i would say the most power you can get reliably is 210 - 220 ideally on a rebuilt engine. More power is attainable but would depend how often you use the car and what for, thats what boost controllers are for :)

I believe the highest anyone has seen in the club is around 260, lots of work though.

again depends on usage and budget

The main strength of the 21T engine is its torque :lol:

[graham]

i've seen 290bhp+ out of a 21 engine. At the moment reliabul power from the 21 lump i reckon 230-240bhp but watch this space there is alot going on in the 21 world at the moment with the management side of it hope to soon open a whole new world of power for the 21. But that aside the 21 develops alot of torque put a small mod on and you'll notice a benifit

[turbochris]

hi guys thanks for the reply, perhaps with the engine going in a renault 5 and having a good torque figure minor mods would be enough. i was a senior tech for renault for more years that i care to mention but its been a long time since driving a 21t. i wll post some pics of my chassis that i am going to use.
thanks again

[lyn21turbo]

hi chris,, there are a few pics on the forums of a r5 with a 21t europacup engine installed if u need any ideas

[DaveL485]

Reliably, proven, about 230bhp.

Reliably, with investment, estimated 320+ if not more.

[joff]

Reliably, with investment, estimated 320+ if not more.

when we all stop doing stupid things like moving house and having a real life we might get back to important things like 21 turbos.... :)

[DaveL485]

Reliably, with investment, estimated 320+ if not more.

when we all stop doing stupid things like moving house and having a real life we might get back to important things like 21 turbos.... :)


INNIT :lol:

[rogerreno]

i've seen 290bhp+ out of a 21 engine.

Just as a matter of interest....who's was this,what was done to it to acheive this sort of power and was this on a dyno with print out???

Questions Questions.......

[graham]

i saw a dyno print out was an engine done by prima hate to think how much it cost

[Tiny Tim]

Im sorry, but yno print outs mean **** ALL. As do dynos themselves. Unless its bench tested, the best way to prove power is the old trap speed/weight/reaction time 1/4 mile measurement.

[craig21t]

like this one :wink:

[graham]

sorry i stand corrected it was 289bhp ta craig

[Tiny Tim]

Whell spin does funny things :roll:

[Krede]

Will that power estimation apply to ANY Douvrin engineblock? or just the turbos?
I am considering to build a turbo engine for my Murena, but will have to use the 2.2 of a citroen cx as a basis.

[rogerreno]

like this one :wink:

LMAO at the Quote 'wheel rotation wrong' :lol:

Where they testing it in reverse or something???!!!

Hey Timmy...wheres the good old 'Can O worms' when you need it!!

[Tiny Tim]

like this one :wink:

LMAO at the Quote 'wheel rotation wrong' :lol:

Where they testing it in reverse or something???!!!

Hey Timmy...wheres the good old 'Can O worms' when you need it!!

It was stolen by that pig with wings....



DAAAAAAMN HIM :twisted:

[teo]

like this one :wink:



bonjour 289CV JOLIE TIP TOP.... :D

c une 2RM OU UNE 4 ROUE QUADRA ?

[|sAs|]

I am by no means an expert! but i would say the most power you can get reliably is 210 - 220 ideally on a rebuilt engine. More power is attainable but would depend how often you use the car and what for, thats what boost controllers are for :)

I believe the highest anyone has seen in the club is around 260, lots of work though.

again depends on usage and budget

The main strength of the 21T engine is its torque :lol:

What is it that gives up ? and what is needed for 250hp reliable bhp ? :?:

[DaveL485]

Whell spin does funny things :roll:


:lol:

We can all wave bits of paper, im sure we all will in the future, but y'know it comes down to that minute on the track, motorway or strip when the paper-wavers go head to head.....

[Tiny Tim]

Whell spin does funny things :roll:


:lol:

We can all wave bits of paper, im sure we all will in the future, but y'know it comes down to that minute on the track, motorway or strip when the paper-wavers go head to head.....

Ah yes... tiddlywinks... seperates the men from the mice.....

[OlliePh3]

I am by no means an expert! but i would say the most power you can get reliably is 210 - 220 ideally on a rebuilt engine. More power is attainable but would depend how often you use the car and what for, thats what boost controllers are for :)

I believe the highest anyone has seen in the club is around 260, lots of work though.

again depends on usage and budget

The main strength of the 21T engine is its torque :lol:

What is it that gives up ? and what is needed for 250hp reliable bhp ? :?:

I believe the liners (splitting) are the main weakpoint when increasing the power due to running too lean with too much boost or running too much ignition advance with a chip. This is why standalone management is the key to big power - you can achieve the right mix of timing and fuel at different levels of boost.

I'm sure someone can confirm/correct/add to this?

[turbochris]

looks like i have done the can of worms thing by asking about bhp, i am a member of a suzuki forum and it causes the same reaction there. sorry to say that when i phoned the guy up to arrange collection of my 21 turbo engine he said he had sold to another person, what a complete w****r. due to this and the chance of buying one that does not need a full re build is slim i have bought another renault engine and box. it is from a 172 clio cup with only 20,000 miles, i will turbo the engine.shame about the 21 engine . thanks for the information . the engine is going into a wide body gt turbo and it will be mid engined :D

[DaveL485]

You should of asked.....there's some decent second hand lumps floating about and even one with a top end rebuild probably wouldnt have cost as much as the clio lump... :cry:

[turbochris]

i would have liked the 21 engine as i worked for renault from the mid 80s to 2002 ish and have a soft spot for all things renault and blown. the clio 172 cup engine is complete with gear box,loom and all the electricary and with only 20,000 miles. it was to good to miss at ?400, of course it will have a turbo fitted to it :D

[Jo]

i would have liked the 21 engine as i worked for renault from the mid 80s to 2002 ish and have a soft spot for all things renault and blown. the clio 172 cup engine is complete with gear box,loom and all the electricary and with only 20,000 miles. it was to good to miss at ?400, of course it will have a turbo fitted to it :D

owow, the turbo conversion will cost ya ! Please do it the right way. If you dont, its misery from beginning to end...

I saw prices from BBP and Ktec, man, just shoot me ! If you want i'll give you an adres in Holland that build engines at the right way. 30 years experiance in building racecars , streetracers and others.

http://www.priyantha.nl/rtc/upload/F4RlowCRsmall.JPG

http://www.priyantha.nl/rtc/upload/F4RlowCR2small.JPG

http://www.priyantha.nl/rtc/upload/F4R_turbo_downpipe2.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/joke221/allerlei/rsturbo600x450.jpg

internals:

F4R RS motor door Huijzer Motorsport geprepareerd
F4R RS engine prepared by Huijzer Motorsports

oliepomp bewerkt en ingesteld op hogere oliedruk
modified oilpump , hi pressure

Huijzer Motorsport cilinderkop met sterkere klepveren
Huijzer Motorsport cilinderhead /stronger valvesprings

ARP drijfstangbouten
ARP rodbolts

F9Q dCi120 krukas (bewerkt) -> (prepared crank)

Meg RS225 zuigers (bewerkt) -> (pistons)
Cr >9:1

250kPa MAP sensor

grotere Magneti Marelli IWP Pico injectoren (injectors, bigger)

Fastchip geprogrammeerde ECU

Ni-Resist gietijzeren uitlaatspruitstuk (exhaustmanifold)

Garrett GT2860RS turbo

70mm gesegmenteerde rvs downpipe met v-band klemmen

[turbochris]

very nice pics, i am now a lecturer in motor vehicle and engineering and have some good resources to hand. i intend to run a stand alone ignitio/injection system and lower the compression etc. this will take around 1 to 2 years.

[DaveL485]

very nice pics, i am now a lecturer in motor vehicle and engineering and have some good resources to hand. i intend to run a stand alone ignitio/injection system and lower the compression etc. this will take around 1 to 2 years.


Ooooooo hello sailor.

Hang about these parts, you will come in most useful!


The first 2 standalone 21T engine's are in production....one is running and half way mapped, mine is almost running lol

.....and I wanna go in that car of yours LOL

[Lee_R21Turbo]

OI....make that 3 stand alone 21Ts you penis!!!! :bla: :bla:

[DaveL485]

OI....make that 3 stand alone 21Ts you penis!!!! :bla: :bla:


Sorry Lee, Three. Kiss kiss!

[Lee_R21Turbo]

Dont want your kisses....Gem's will do tho!!! :kiss:

[devonquadra]

hmmmmmmmm?
Maybe even 4!! :good2: :good2: We will have to wait n see.........
(Just to introduce a cat to the pigeons!!) :wink:

[turbochris]

Even though i have not gone the 21T route i will still keep poping up on the forum as some of the work may be of use to 21T owners. i hope to make a start on the car in the next four weeks, it would be sooner but i have a few motobikes to finishoff.

[graham]

nice on chris keep us posted will be intresting to see what u come up with

[joff]

hmmmmmmmm?
Maybe even 4!! :good2: :good2: We will have to wait n see.........
(Just to introduce a cat to the pigeons!!) :wink:

And my ecu's sitting on the side, waiting for me to stop doing stupid 'moving' type things...

I'll post some pics up of my new garage.... :D

[DaveL485]

Well.....RABSON.....Guess what we're doing this weekend :lol: :lol: